Evolution VS God

September 24, 2013

Evangelism

, , ,

Subscribe

Subscribe to our RSS feed and social profiles to receive updates.

5 Comments on “Evolution VS God”

    • ChurchSalt Says:

      This video may be completely hacked out and dubbed over from an interview conducted with marshmallow recipe experts, it doesn’t change the fact that the point made in the video is true. That being those who hold to evolution cling to more faith than science. The questions being asked only have one answer. There are HUGE gaps in the entire theory of evolution that are bridged by faith and anyone intellectually honest (as many in the video are) has to admit that.
      The real question is why do people find that faith more appealing than the Christian faith? The answer is simple. The Christian faith recognizes a creator who has greater power and authority than those created, and so we are answerable to Him. That is a offensive thought to most people simply because they want to have no authority higher than themselves. They want to determine their own morality, laws, and standards. Because of this God is hated, rejected and raged against regardless of how much faith must be used to get to some other platform of belief.

      On a side note, I would encourage you not to rely too heavily on Wikipedia. It isn’t exactly the deepest well with the cleanest water, if you take my meaning.

      Thanks for stopping by!

      Reply

      • agnophilo Says:

        “This video may be completely hacked out and dubbed over from an interview conducted with marshmallow recipe experts, it doesn’t change the fact that the point made in the video is true. That being those who hold to evolution cling to more faith than science.”

        I am a huge science nerd and I can tell you that that is not remotely true. Show me one aspect of evolution science that supposedly can’t be tested, and I will show you how it has been tested at least 3 different ways.

        “The questions being asked only have one answer. There are HUGE gaps in the entire theory of evolution that are bridged by faith and anyone intellectually honest (as many in the video are) has to admit that.”

        What gaps? And again, the people in the video are reduced to sound bites which are often (especially in creationist videos) misleading. For instance darwin is often quoted by creationists as saying that that the eye could evolve “seems absurd to the highest degree”, and this as presented the same way these people are being presented, as “see, they agree with us!” But what they don’t tell you is that the following sentence, roughly paraphrased, was “but here’s why it’s not absurd” and a list of things that must be true if the eye did evolve (all of which have proven true).

        “The real question is why do people find that faith more appealing than the Christian faith? The answer is simple. The Christian faith recognizes a creator who has greater power and authority than those created, and so we are answerable to Him. That is a offensive thought to most people simply because they want to have no authority higher than themselves. They want to determine their own morality, laws, and standards. Because of this God is hated, rejected and raged against regardless of how much faith must be used to get to some other platform of belief.”

        Speaking as an atheist who accepts evolution and has had countless conversations with other non-believers of all stripes on the subject and discussed why people started questioning and what lead them to doubt I can tell you I have never heard any of this reasoning anywhere in my life except from creationists trying to put those words in our mouths. I stopped believing in god because it didn’t make sense, not because it appealed to me. Most people who lose faith do so after desperately trying to cling to it for year after year, terrified of losing it for fear that something awful will befall them, or fear of the social consequences. This is the opposite of this “it’s just so appealing” stereotype. While if the religion of someone’s youth is stifling and oppressive losing faith can be a breath of fresh air, this is hardly universally the case, and most non-believers do not question the beliefs of their culture because they prefer them to not be true, but because they honestly don’t think they are. Do you honestly think all atheists are selfish, intellectually dishonest, ego-driven jerks only out for their own gratification? I dislike organized religion but I recognize that most believers, however wrong their attitudes might be, have good intentions and are genuine in their beliefs. You paint non-believers as universally corrupt and disingenuous. Do you honestly believe that? Do you think I’m lying to myself because I somehow get off on atheism? Did some evangelist who has never been an atheist tell you that, or did an atheist?

        “On a side note, I would encourage you not to rely too heavily on Wikipedia. It isn’t exactly the deepest well with the cleanest water, if you take my meaning.”

        I wasn’t relying on it, it was just a quick reference to the “scandal”.

        “Thanks for stopping by!”

        You’re welcome.

      • ChurchSalt Says:

        Hey Agno,
        You say there are no gaps in evolutionary theory. What about the entire foundation for it?
        Gap 1 – Life came from non-life. This has never been explained, tested, or reproduced even once let alone 3 times.
        Gap 2 – Something came from nothing, matter came from non-matter. Again, cannot be explained, tested or reproduced.
        Gap 3 – Species transitions. No lab has reproduced (nor ever will) a gecko becoming a dog or a salmon becoming an owl.

        It goes on and on. So often people get absorbed with tiny little details of science they forget to back up and look at the basics. But to be honest, none of that matters does it? In previous comments on an older post (“Post-Modern Bloodhounds“) you made the following remark:
        “If god would punish me for honestly not knowing which version of which religion is correct (especially when there are so many) then he is a cruel, evil god and I don’t think I could worship a being like that even if I knew it existed.”
        In saying this, you revealed the truth behind your incredibly zealous atheism and seemingly endless enthusiasm to comment on Christian blogs. You have been repeatedly pointed to Scripture so as to learn of the one true God, but still claim you have no direction. You also have put yourself higher than God by deciding that He is cruel and evil in your eyes, while yorself wise and good. You state you will reject Him even if irrefutable proof were given to you. This is exactly what I said above, isn’t it? You want no higher authority than yourself and so reject, judge and rage against Him. God will be a just judge when He condemns you, for you have had it all laid out before you and have chosen to rebel. I had am not a Christian because I am afraid something evil will befall me if I’m not, I am a Christian because it was all laid out before me and I realized that if God is good and just then He has to condemn me for the things I have done. He isn’t evil and cruel – I am.
        As far as your question, “Do you honestly think all atheists are selfish, intellectually dishonest, ego-driven jerks only out for their own gratification?” My answer: Yes. I think all men (women too) are born full of self-focused, sinful tendencies and have committed countless crimes against God’s laws for their own gratification, including me. Especially me. Unless someone steps up for me on judgement day, I’m toast (so are you).
        Knowing your position, there really isn’t much point in continuing the endless science debate, is there? You will see proof against God in science because that’s all you will allow yourself to see, and in some small way this will soothe your conscience I suppose. However, please understand you cannot claim ignorance when you stand before the great Throne. You have heard the truth multiple times and if you had put half of your science efforts into understanding God’s written Word you would have fully grasped it by now. But you haven’t. That’s your choice. God will be just on that day.

      • agnophilo Says:

        “Hey Agno,
        You say there are no gaps in evolutionary theory. What about the entire foundation for it?
        Gap 1 – Life came from non-life. This has never been explained, tested, or reproduced even once let alone 3 times.
        Gap 2 – Something came from nothing, matter came from non-matter. Again, cannot be explained, tested or reproduced.”

        Neither of these have anything to do with evolution, which explains how life adapts once it exists and makes no claims about where it (let alone the universe) comes from. You could just as easily argue that the holocaust didn’t happen because nobody’s seen matter come from non-matter, since one logically must come before the other. It’s also worth mentioning that vacuum experiments actually have apparently produced matter from empty space, and modern quantum physics observes that what we perceive as empty space is actually full of measurable quantum particles popping in and out of existence. Does this mean there is or is not a god? No. But I’m sure it will freak out fundamentalists all the same. Darwin assumed the existence of a creator and said so in On The Origin Of Species. The claim that evolution is somehow atheistic or makes claims about there not being a god is a commonly repeated lie.

        “Gap 3 – Species transitions. No lab has reproduced (nor ever will) a gecko becoming a dog or a salmon becoming an owl.”

        That is because evolution doesn’t work that way, one modern species should no more turn into another modern species than modern germans should suddenly start speaking german. But we can prove that languages change over time, have changed a great deal over long stretches of time, and that english is a germanic language (if you go back far enough there are texts with earlier languages from which modern english and german are derived). This is similar to biological evolution, a dog shouldn’t magically turn into a cat but we know that dogs vary and those variations are inherited and that all life changes (we hijacked this process to turn wolves into poodles, weiner dogs, pitbulls etc) and we further know that these changes are often more dramatic over long stretches of time. We can also prove that say dogs and cats are related to canids and felines, and that canids and felines are related to one another if you go further back, because they are both mammals. We can verify this genetically and by finding intermediate fossils in the geological column showing what life was like during different eras. This is again directly analogous to the language example, we can show that english and german are related languages by comparing their modern similarities (they use the same alphabet for instance and many words with similar meanings sound the same) and we can further confirm it by finding older texts which show the “root” forms of those words, intermediate forms like transitional fossils.

        “It goes on and on. So often people get absorbed with tiny little details of science they forget to back up and look at the basics.”

        Those are just red herring arguments.

        “But to be honest, none of that matters does it? In previous comments on an older post (“Post-Modern Bloodhounds“) you made the following remark:
        “If god would punish me for honestly not knowing which version of which religion is correct (especially when there are so many) then he is a cruel, evil god and I don’t think I could worship a being like that even if I knew it existed.” In saying this, you revealed the truth behind your incredibly zealous atheism”

        How does saying it’s wrong not to forgive someone for an honest mistake make me a zealot? And a common theme in scripture is that sin requires knowledge, that if you honestly don’t know something is wrong you are not guilty of the sin. If you went home and turned on a light switch and unbeknownst to you someone had rigged it up to electrocute someone to death, and when you flipped the switch it killed a person, are you guilty of murder? What jury in the world would find you guilty? I don’t “deny” yahweh’s existence any more than you “deny” allah’s existence, I honestly don’t think either of them are real. Any god that would torture me forever for an honest mistake is by definition evil, and indistinguishable from the devil. So yeah, I’m a zealot for not wanting to worship god if I get to the pearly gates and find out he’s a demon in disguise.

        “and seemingly endless enthusiasm to comment on Christian blogs.”

        Actually I’m just a science nerd who comments in his free time on blogs that bash science. That christians tend to do this in the US almost exclusively is coincidental.

        “You have been repeatedly pointed to Scripture so as to learn of the one true God, but still claim you have no direction.”

        I’ve read more scripture than most christians. Reading it doesn’t mean I believe it’s of divine origin or infallible. I could read the quran to you day and night, would that make you want to be muslim if you didn’t believe it came from allah to begin with?

        “You also have put yourself higher than God by deciding that He is cruel and evil in your eyes, while yorself wise and good.”

        I didn’t say I am wise and good, I simply try to be. And you have to realize to me “god” is a hypothetical being and I was speaking of “him” hypothetically. I was basically saying if god existed and was evil I wouldn’t worship him. If god was evil should I still worship him?

        “You state you will reject Him even if irrefutable proof were given to you. This is exactly what I said above, isn’t it? You want no higher authority than yourself and so reject, judge and rage against Him.”

        I said if I had proof and he was evil I wouldn’t worship him, not that I would still be an atheist or that I wouldn’t worship a god if he turned out to actually deserve the title.

        “God will be a just judge when He condemns you, for you have had it all laid out before you and have chosen to rebel.”

        You are confusing a hypothetical scenario in which there is proof with actual proof and ignoring that in that hypothetical scenario he is evil and ought to be rebelled against.

        “I had am not a Christian because I am afraid something evil will befall me if I’m not, I am a Christian because it was all laid out before me and I realized that if God is good and just then He has to condemn me for the things I have done. He isn’t evil and cruel – I am.”

        For all I know you are, but I think more likely you just call any selfish or angry or flawed part of your mind “you” and call any good, noble, kind, loving part of your mind “god”. I think it’s all us, we’re good and bad.

        [“As far as your question, “Do you honestly think all atheists are selfish, intellectually dishonest, ego-driven jerks only out for their own gratification?”]

        “My answer: Yes. I think all men (women too) are born full of self-focused, sinful tendencies and have committed countless crimes against God’s laws for their own gratification, including me. Especially me. Unless someone steps up for me on judgement day, I’m toast (so are you).”

        You’re kind of dodging the question. I was asking about your opinion of atheists, not your opinion of people in general. You make it sound like atheists are unable to love or care about anything but themselves. If that were true I would leave you to your ignorance. I try to inform people about the science they do not understand but hate all the same because I care about them and I care about the truth.

        “Knowing your position, there really isn’t much point in continuing the endless science debate, is there? You will see proof against God in science because that’s all you will allow yourself to see, and in some small way this will soothe your conscience I suppose.”

        How does correcting your mistaken notions about science translate into science disproving god? I don’t think science proves there is no god. And fundamentalists only think that because by “god” they mean their opinions about god, which is what they really take as infallible and unquestionable. They have made primitive notions about god into an idol.

        “However, please understand you cannot claim ignorance when you stand before the great Throne. You have heard the truth multiple times and if you had put half of your science efforts into understanding God’s written Word you would have fully grasped it by now. But you haven’t. That’s your choice. God will be just on that day.”

        So which is it, I am ignorant or I know yahweh is real and pretend he isn’t? In reality neither is true – I just don’t agree with you.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: